Interview with Vecna
by Cicatrix
[August 1997]

How did you start out in computers?

In 1986, my parents gave me a CP-400 computer (a brazilian clone of a TSR-80 Color2)... I always wished for a video-game, but my parents gave me a comp... I found very few programs for my computer, and started to code my own stuff...

How and when did you start out in the virus scene?

I started trying to code a virus in 1988... But it seems that to write a virus that infects the K7 tape drives in a CP-400 is impossible... :)
In 1992 I got a 386, and released in the wild my first working virus a couple of months later... It was a non-res companion ('a la' GoldBug) written in Turbo Pascal... I spread it in all BBS's that I could find, and it is still in the wild on some BBS's, that still have my virus dropper online (a fake utility to double the size of the RAM).

Have you written viruses? If so which would you like to take credit for?

I'm not very proud of my virus in pascal, neither my first virus in asm, but I consider them a step in improving my actual coding skills... I consider my latest virii very good, although they don't show all I can do and I'm proud of them...

How do you name your viruses?

I dunno... The names are of things that sometimes appear in my mind...

Which programming languages do you know?

BASIC, C/C++, Pascal, Delphi, Assembler for 80x86 and 6908e and a couple of others in a minor way, like pearl, lisp, forth, fortran, cobol, etc...

What programming language do you like using the most?

Lately, I code almost exclusively in assembler, even for non-virii things Sometimes I code in Pascal and Delphi too...

Are you a member of a VX group?

Yep... Stealth Group World Wide... [Vecna is now (2/98) a 29A member / Cicatrix]

Which AV software do you like/respect the most? Which the least?

I use AVP and TBAV... Lately, I started to test DrWeb, IceNOD and Adinf. They seem pretty good... I think that the best virus defense is an integrity checker, expecialy one allows you to rename the checksums databases, to avoid deletion by antivirus... The worst antivirus is McAfee's Scan... I don't need to explain why.... ;>

What are your goals (VX wise)?

My objectives in virus scene are almost the same that I have in life... Know how things work, do interesting things, know people, and especially, *CHANGE* things that I consider wrong...
I know that virus coding and spreading, especially the destructive ones like mine, is a form of terrorrism... I can't stop thinking about people that lost their data because one of my virii, and I'm very sorry for this...
But this form of terrorrism is the only way that a south-american guy can help to destroy the imperialism that reigns in our world... I know that this is a tiny blow, but is a duty of all good men fight evil... Even if the weapon is as inoffensive as a virus...

What is your view on the continuous 'war' between VX and AV.

This war is a commercial one... The virus writers, in the majority, are guys that want to create mindless havoc, without a definite objective, and the AVs are guys that do a simple job... The only want to have money...
Very few people, in both sides, fight because they feel they are doing something right... Some want money, some want recognition, respect, and like..

Where did you get you handle? What does it mean?

I got this handle from the AD&D rpg game... I have others nicks, but always in Portuguese... The virus that I published in VLAD#7 was under the handle Vecna, and peoples start to know me by this handle...
I don't like the handle 'Vecna' very much... I still prefer 'Sangue Sujo'...

What is your view on Virus Creation software (eg. VCL, PS-MPC etc.)?

They are used, generally, by guys that have no other wish than to create havoc... Although to create havoc helps me in my project of changing wrong things, I don't have too much respect, as virus writer, for people that use them..

What is your view on macro viruses vs. assembly or HLL viruses?

I don't like macro virii very much, because I don't see anything advanced in them... But recently, SLAM started to do good things in this field.. Assembly is still the best language to code virus, because that language works very fast and is very small, and can access the hardware directly... HLL virii are fine, but they need to be advanced... Overwriting or parasite non-res virii are worthless, in the world of today, being in asm or HLL...
I consider a virus, be it in WordBasic, HLL or assembler, like a book... They serve to spread ideas... If you have a good idea, the type of paper that you use is not important... The same happen with virus...

Have you ever confirmed one of your viruses 'in-the-wild'?

Yep... Hardcore2(boot) and a HLL virus are in the wild in Brazil...
Outsider (BOOT/FILE) was spread through Internet and will be in the wild soon I hope... I must thank SLAM for the release of a macro construction kit and for including my Vecna (BOOT/FILE) virus in a release... The macro virus will drop the virus when it activate... I think that this will spread this virus very well.

Which VX E-zine do you like to most? Which the least?

I like almost all e-zines... 29a and Infected Voice are that ones that I consult most frequntly, because the technical text...
The only ones that I don't like are the YAM and some argentinian vx zines...

Which individual or what group do you like/respect in the VX world?

I found Yosha a very nice guy, good coder and nice friend... I like very much of Pockies too... I think that all peoples of #virus are nice...
Other guy that I like is Eternal Maverick, the only guy that I can have a technical discussion...

In the AV world?

I don't know the AV world very much... Seens that Veldman and Kaspery are good coders... I respect good coders...

Which individual or what group do you like/respect outside the VX or the AV world?

Che Guevara and Bakunin in politicals... Maybe Fidel Castro and Mao Tse Tung too... Pavlov, Skinner and Piaget have a nice work in the study of the human psyche... Vigotsky and Chomsky in their work about linguistic...

What is your view on destructive payloads in viruses?

We live in a sick world, and sometimes we need use sick weapons... I personally use destructive payloads in my virii...

Do you think there is such a thing as a 'good' virus?

Yep... A virus, a book, a picture that helps to change the mind of people in a positive way is always a good thing...

What do you do in 'real' life?

I study in university and work... I studing 'Fonoaudiologia'(dunno the english name), a branch of medicine and pshychologic that studies human communication... A 'fonoaudiologo' is a professional that helps deaf, mutes, peoples with neurologic problems to communicate and live a better life...

Do people outside the VX scene know what you do (parents, girlfriend etc.)?

My parents and my girl know... Other peoples also know, because i was kicked from my first university for coding and spreading virus...

Do you do other computer stuff outside VX (Hacking, phreaking, warez etc.)?

I have a basic knowledge about hacking from my BBS days, and use this and warez trading sometimes...

Should viruses be illegal? Is there a difference between creation and spreading?

Virii should not be illegal... But because they hurt the political elite, they are...
Writing a virus is like writing a book... Spreading a virus is like doing what your book says... It is good that people write a virus, but it is better that they spread it too...
A book about human rights is a good thing, but is better if the writer also does the thing that he wrote...Writing is the theory... Spreading is the practice...

Describe the perfect virus.

In the technical view point, the better virus is the one that the victim only detect when there's no way back... Compatibility is the key word
A virus that can fullfil the wishes of the author is a perfect virus...

What is your view on Windows (95)

Well... Is a new platform to infect, and it makes things easier to people, so people will use it more and more, so, if we can infect it, we will be able to reach your objectives better...
I personaly don't like win95, and I'm a DOS coder, although this will change soon... I hope...

What is your advice for people just starting out?

Be creative, and don't get kicked of university doing stupid things, like putting in the virus the same handle that you have in your email adress... ;>

Where can you be reached if at all?

Email me at vecna_br@hotmail.com or talk with me in undernet #virus... I will give you my PGP key and another email adress where you can find me...

Any greets?

I think that I learn a bit with all people that I talked to in my life...
I thank the world...

Any other comments?

Thanks to Cicatrix, who gave me the opportunity to explain my view points... I am very proud to help VDAT...
VDAT is a good thing for the vx...

Short responses to the following names or words:

    - Dark Avenger        - Maybe the best virus coder ever
    - Dark Angel          - Why you didn't you like TerminatorZ
    - Sarah Gordon        - Why do people not like you??
    - Fridrik Skulason    - F-PROT is an above average AV product
    - Alan Solomon        - Do you think that you did the right thing
                            with Black Baron??
    - WordBasic/VBA       - Another lang
    - VDAT                - Very very cool
    - VSUM                - Use the same description for all virus
    - Assembler           - The way to talk with hardware
    - NuKE                - Azreal sux...
    - Phalcon Skism       - Good zines
    - VLAD                - Thank for publishing my virus
    - Immortal Riot       - Good zine
    - Trident             - Cool virii
    - Polymorphic         - One of the best weapons
    - Stealth             - Other good thing
    - I hate......        - Retch
    - I love......        - Think
    - Internet            - Sorry that the price is high here
    - IRC                 - Nice way to get to know people
    - Sex                 - Very cool... I love it...
    - World War 3         - I hope that it will be the downfall of the
                            imperialism...

How did you get into SGWW?

I was searching a group to join, and saw the email of SGWW in VLAD#7... I got email from LovinGOD, and send a message... I showed LovinGOD my betas from OUTSIDER virus, and I was accepted... I joined to SGWW because I can work in a major group, with good coders to exchange ideas and liberty to use my destructive payloads... Also I like the view point that LovinGOD has about destructive payloads very much...

How is SGWW organized?

I really dont know... I only know that LovinGOD is the president, and Caesar is the president in Ukraine... I not even know the handle of all members...

How is the virus scene in South America?

The country that has the most virus writers is Argentina... But the Argentinians have the nasty habit of thinking yourself about all others (I know this... I was born in Argentina, although I have lived in Brazil since I was 3 years)
I talked, through IRC, with Darkside1 and Jack Qwerty, that are very nice guys... Darkside1 said me that Dark Chacal, a SLAM member, is Brazilian too, but I never talked with him...
It seems that not many people code virii here... But the number seems to be growning...

Will you ever release a virus creator?

I read an article from Bontchev, talking about this... A good and very variable virus creator can be ultimate weapon against AVs... We can code thousands of virus with the kit and send directly to AVs companys... They will need extract scan string, update the scanners and like... If they decide to ignore us, we can start to spread some of them, or send it to small companies, that will happily say the their scanners detect 10.000 virii that the others scanner don't...
This will be the downfall of scanning... Only integrity checker will survive... Maybe, if I found people to work with me, I could code this virus creation kit...

What is in your future and the future of SGWW?

I will slow down my virus coding, because I found it more helpfull to people to spend my time helping the society with 'fonoaudiologia'... And I need to finish the university... But I don't think I'll stop virus coding...
Although the only member that I have frequent contact with is Eternal Maverick, I think that SGWW is still strong, and will be strong in the future... We have very good coders...

Will SGWW increase the number of members?

Good coders and peoples with ideas will always be welcome...

Will SGWW go into other scenes except VX? (hacking, etc.)

I think that SGWW is and will be only a virus group...