Interview with The Unforgiven

How many viruses did you create?

I think I've written about twenty viruses or something like that. I often writes a new virus when my earlier creations are detected by the most popular anti-virus programs. Though, sometimes I might just write a virus to try out a new idea, technique or simply just for destructive purposes. It can vary how often and how many viruses I write. It's also a question of time.

Did they have a destructive payload?

Yes. All my viruses are programmed highly destructive with the intensions to destroy as many harddrives as possible. Though, sometimes the pay-loads used is not destructive at all, screen-tricks, music and that kinda things.

Did you release them (into public)? If yes, why?

Yes. I do release ‚m all into public such as on BBSes and companies if that is possible. They'll probably also be send to various FTP sites on Internet carrying illegal copyrighted software because of the great number of PC-users there.

I am releasing them because if I wasn't, lotsa time should be wasted with debugging as well as bug fixing. Who would notice if they worked or not if they only were printed as source code in our magazine? Noone would.

It's also interesting to see how far they can travel on their own and it's a pure pleasure to see reports by infected loosers. That motivates me to create more.

Can you give examples?

Red Mercury was sent out in several infected files on all major BBSes in Sweden. We've had quite a few reports concerning Red Mercury because it will trash the harddrives a bit too often. Bad Attitude, Eternity_II and DreamWorld has as well been reported, but since they're all complete undetectable by all anti-virus program, most of the infected users don't know which virus that blowed their harddrives or infected their files and cannot report a specific virus. It's for us though easily noticed that it's our virus that caused them the great damage.

Apart from "just for fun and curiosity/interest in programming etc." - did you have any other motives for writing viruses?

What motivates a virus writer does really vary. It's said that we writes viruses for either destructive purposes, intellectual challanges or for publicity reasons. This is ofcause not true. What motivates me to write viruses is that I just like it. One who're writing viruses will learn to how to program assembly language and how the computer works in a great detailed level. That's not bad! But what motivates me most is that I have met quite a few nice friends, etc. Virus writing is not an anti-social hobby as most people think it is.

Are you (I think so) member of a virus-writing/phreaking/hacking group currently or have you been earlier?

I founded together with a friend called Metal Militia, Immortal Riot.

Could you give a description of the group (main interests, number, age and type of members).

We're mainly a virus writing group but are also interested in other topics of the underground-computing, such as hacking and phreaking. Ofcause we all program - all in our all different style and languages, the viruses is though written i pure assembly.

We're four members as for now, and we don't have any plans to expand. We're between 16 and 20 years old and studying on different school's or university's.

Do you prefer Cyberspace-contacts to talking over a beer (or a glass of wine or ...)?

Well. Since I know all of Immortal Riot in a private matter and have known Raver for a very long time it's kinda natural to met as normal friends. This is the reason that we'll not accept new members even if they're great coders.

You seem to dislike av-people because of their making money out of the virus-business. So they take the users' money, viruses take away time and data - or do you object?

I don't dislike anti-virus people because of they're making money out of what let's say I'm doing. But what I don't like is their narrow-minded attitude toward us. Also it's sad to see such rich people like for example John Mcaffe lie about a virus capability just because he want to sell more of his crappy anti-virus program. They're mainly motivated by greed and not interested in helping their customers. If they were, they would have printed correct information about viruses. Knowledge is always the best way to avoid and get rid of viruses.

About your person:

I think of myself as a normal youth who like parties, babes and fun and I doubt anybody who know me would describe me much different. I'm just normal - to normal maybe? Pretty hard question.

How old are you?

I'm 19 years old.

Are you male (silly question - but just to make sure ...)?

Yes. I think most virus writers are male.

Are you student at high-school, college, university or where are you occupied?

I am studying at a university somewhere in Sweden.

How do you make your living?

I don't ;). I'm just wastening borrowed money. I have had the opporunity to work, but that's pretty boring so I rather not.

Do your parents, close relatives, non-cyberspace-friends, does your partner know about your activity and Unforgiven-identity?

They know that I'm interested in computers but not exactly what I'm doing behind it and they definitly not know my handle. Girls and parents don't understand too much about computers, so what's the point in telling them?