Interview with Buz
by Cicatrix
[October 1998]

How did you start out in computers?

> Playin' round with a C64 waay back when I was 8... Coding simple graphics and things like that in BASIC. I had a tape drive to go with it, a few games, some demos, and hooked the whole thing up to a TV. I couldn't record anything onto the tape, cos it wouldn't bloody work - so I lost interest in that after a while. Then, someone attempted to teach me FORTRAN at about 9 or 10 I think. No fun, I bailed out pretty quickly. Then, after messing around with various IBM compatibles, I developed an interest in low-level structures, and viruses. I used to mess around with bits of DOS, and tried pulling out bits of machine-code looking things out of programs. There was noone round to teach me, however, and that was quite frustrating after a while.

How and when did you start out in the virus scene?

> Oh, I kinda wandered onto IRC last February or January, and headed straight to #virus. As an aside to that, I started out in virus writing much much earlier. My very first own computer, a shitty monochrome 286 with a 40 meg drive got hit by Exebug, and I couldn't get rid of it, since it messed with the CMOS in some tricky way. Immediately I thought - "How amazing. I wanna be able to do that." A year or so later, a friend of mine showed me some virus source codes, and said he could teach me assembly language. I tried writing code I had no clue about, but much later, everything suddenly became clear, and I started to write properly. All this happened while I lived in a rather out-of-the-way place where I could find no internet access of BBSs... So luckily, I got a good grasp of everything I really had to learn before even getting access to the internet.

Have you written viruses? If so which would you like to take credit for?

> I have. I'll take credit for whatever's in the wild at the moment and isn't claimed by anyone else :-P

How do you name your viruses?

> This is the bit I hate. All the good names are taken, and there's only a bunch of obvious shitty names, and names which sound good at first, but become worse and worse every time I hear 'em.

Which programming languages do you know?

> Bits and pieces of various things, but not in depth.

What programming language do you like using the most?

> Assembly, by a long shot.

Are you a member of a VX group?

> Yes, the Feathered Serpents.

Which AV software do you like/respect the most? Which the least?

> I don't like endorsing commercial products.

What are your goals (VX wise)?

> Write the perfect virus? Nah, I think I'll kick around the scene, write an occasional virus or article.. Oh, and further the Feathered Serpents' causes, of course.

What is your view on the continuous 'war' between VX and AV.

> The "war" is a media creation. It is there to thrill and titillate the average brainless computer user. The computer media is sponsored by the anti-virus industry to some degree, isn't it? Of course, the lovely, lovely anti-virus PR types like a story that would sell a few more copies of the magazine - it's more exposure for their advertising. They love a scare story - more scanners are sold like that, it's practically free advertising. Of course, the certain unnamed, richer anti-virus vendors keep pumping money into the media. That's why shit products get great reviews, and excellent scanners are always left out of tests.

Where did you get you handle? What does it mean?

> I used it when I first got on IRC, and it kinda stuck.

What is your view on Virus Creation software (eg. VCL, PS-MPC etc.)?

> No comment. They have been much talked about anyway, no need to add my two cents.

What is your view on macro viruses vs. assembly or HLL viruses?

> Macro viruses are viruses just like any other type. They function differently, but hey, if they get the job done.. I personally have little interest in them, since I grew up with a belief that tight coding, speed, control and such things were crucial, and macros don't have those in the same way that assembly viruses do. HLL viruses can be interesting, since HLL subroutines make poor choices for signature strings. If anyone can write a polymorph engine that creates decryptors made solely out of HLL code, the poor anti-virus research people are going to have one bad day.

Have you ever confirmed one of your viruses 'in-the-wild'?

> Nope... I let one off on my old school's network, but it hasn't made it to any researcher, so it might as well be dead.

Which VX E-zine do you like to most? Which the least?

> There's a whole lot that have been written, and quite a few that I like. The least respect would be shared between NuKE Infojournals, Censor, Evolution and CPI.

Which individual or what group do you like/respect in the VX world?

> The early Bulgarian programmers. Anyone who's done something innovative or ground-breaking.

In the AV world?

> Noone comes to mind. This isn't meant as a slight to anyone though.

Which individual or what group do you like/respect outside the VX or the AV world?

> Free-thinking, individualistic people.

What is your view on destructive payloads in viruses?

> This is really an old debate. To the average computer user, a virus is inherently bad. It's always psychologically damaging - it's an alien body within one's system. Anyone I know who isn't a a programmer has this preconception that viruses fuck up computers. To the average computer user, the term "payload" has no meaning. Let ethics professors and virus researcher types talk about this, it isn't pertinent to whatever you're doing, whether you are a virus writer or an anti-virus software developer, researcher or PR person.

Do you think there is such a thing as a 'good' virus?

> Some viruses take VSAFE out of memory, that's good, isn't it? Good is too subjective a term. Viruses taught me assembly language. That's good. The same viruses might've wiped some poor sod's disks, which is bad. A 'good' virus will do only good to anyone it infects, and since this is impossible, there's no such thing as a strictly 'good' virus. Morals and ethics vary wildly from one person to another, so it's pointless to debate the nature of 'good' and 'evil'.

What do you do in 'real' life?

> Everything I can get into ;-)

Do people outside the VX scene know what you do (parents, girlfriend etc.)?

> A few people know, mostly friends. I don't hide it, it's what I do and I'm not ashamed of it.

Do you do other computer stuff outside VX (Hacking, phreaking, warez etc.)?

> No.

Should viruses be illegal? Is there a difference between creation and spreading?

> How exactly would one make viruses illegal? Would one have to write down guidelines for 'legal' and illegal 'code'? The definition of the term 'virus' and the program code needed to create one would create a legal quagmire, restricting the legitimate programmers more than virus writers. Besides that, virus writing laws would be unenforceable unless the government watched anyone with a computer 24 hours a day. Tracking down a virus to its spreader would be just about as easy as finding out where the fly you've got comes from. The whole effort would suck in more time and resources than it would save.

Describe the perfect virus.

> One that infects god's computer without god knowing. Heh..

What is your view on Windows (95/98)

> Mass-produced, mass-marketed fodder.

What is your advice for people just starting out?

> Get your shit together, sit down and actually write something.

Short responses to the following names or words:

    - Dark Avenger		- Virus author made media villain.

    - Dark Angel		- Professional respect for this man.

    - Sarah Gordon		- Someone heavily used by the anti-virus
    			  industry for propaganda. I don't know
    			  what she's like as a person though.

    - Fridrik Skulason	- Another person I don't know much about.

    - Alan Solomon		- Yet another person I don't know much about

    - WordBasic/VBA		- Some language I don't use.

    - VDAT                  - <Pat Cicatrix on the back> Lil' ego-booster
    			  section :-P

    - VSUM			- Is that still around?

    - Assembler		- Way of the Source.

    - Phalcon Skism		- Wise old semi-mythical entity.

    - Polymorphic		- Big buzz-word. Measure of your social
    			  position in the VX world. Quite useless
    			  unless done properly

    - Stealth		- As above.

    - I hate......		- Various evil things.

    - I love......		- Everything else. Except for the crap
    			  I'm indifferent to.

    - Internet		- Vaguely organised chaos.

    - IRC			- Slacker's heaven.

    - Sex			- My hormonal levels make it very interesting
    			  for me.

    - World War 3		- The end of the human race? Hmm.. you tell
    			  me if it's good or bad.

Where can you be reached if at all?

> Occasionally on IRC, Undernet, #vir.

Any greets?

> Yeah, to all my friends :-)